gehenna garbage dumpgehenna garbage dump

must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. "You talk of the teaching of the "church" from the earliest days. In Biblical times, this place was occupied by Western Semitic pagans people who worshiped deities different from YHWH, such as Molech. There is no mention in the tons upon tons of writings we have from Church Fathers, Christian and Jewish writers, or even secular writers for that matter. He must be alive. (v.24) In Matt 5:22 there is a similar passage where three offenses are mentioned and three punishments that result. 7:32-33). People also ignore the context of what Jesus is talking about. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. The Greek word GeHenna is often translated as Hell Fire in other Bibles. According to the Jewish scholar David Kimhi (c. 1160-c. 1235 C.E. [2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit. Who said it was a statement of limitation when did your "statement of fact" become a "statement of limitation"? Don't stress about any of the Bible's judgment language happening at any time after the first century! "For thus says the Lord God: I will deal with you as you have done, who despised the oath by breaking the covenant.". The common view today is that Gehenna was the garbage dump of Jerusalem. Now I know why I never found any. Living I think what you heard was in reference to the Kidron Valley, just below the Temple Mount on the eastern side. Paul turned a Christian over to satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH. In Hebrew, the Valley of Hinnom was 'Ge Hinnom' which transliterated into Greek became 'Gehenna.' Because of its history of infant sacrifice and idol worship, the area was associated with desecration, abominable fires . This passage appears to me about the situation immediately after God's victory, so it is surely not placed during a time when the New Jerusalem has already been established for a long time. Mark 9:47 / Jeremiah 32:35. In any case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council. Gehenna was not a perpetually burning trash dump." . Regarding individuals, councils excommunicated those that refused to accept a definition reached (or for crimes i.e. http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/, Universalism and The Reality of Eternal Punishment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment, https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7686626,35.2333475,3a,56.6y,328.92h,103.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szm6A_bN1OCNC7ikOFCcVTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656. The version I read was that after human sacrifice in the Hinnom valley ceased, it was then used as a rubbish dump. [Jude uses the fate of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a type of divine punishment. You brought up a very good point. If ALL will be made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be viewed in light of that fact. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. The idea is that the Valley of Hinnon laid just south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls,and that all the refuse and waste from Jerusalem was burned there, and it was pretty much the most disgusting and horrifying place on earth. Same with fire. As with the legend about the rope around the high priests ankle, this popular myth seems to have originated in Jewish circles in the Middle Ages. And of course, the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the trash. Gehenna, garbage dump or a place of eternal punishment?/ Gordon Franz., Gordon Franz. You are also disrespectful towards the damned it is one thing, as God does, to give them their just deserts, but quite another to simply blot them out from existence and pretend everything's fine. It ensured total destruction. There is no corresponding situation for punishment having it's opposite destroyed thus allowing it to continue outside of time. Shouldn't then all be all in all? One of the immediate problems of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious . You first have to make the text fit your interpretation. And nowhere did either Christ or any Apostle ever teach that. See Joachim Jeremias Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, p. 44. Marcos you're welcome to reject the doctrine of eternal torment, but don't pretend that this blogpost or the Bible gives any support to your view. In Israel's past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice. Isaiah 30:33 (HCSB) Indeed! PDF Specifically, Bailey states: [Kimchi] maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. For more details, see copyright information. Gehenna as a Garbage Dump? In Isaiah 30:33, it is referred to as Topheth, a horrible, fearsome place: "Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream . All will be reconciled with God in the fullness of time, at the end of the ages. Isaiah had already envisioned Topheth as the fiery destiny of an enemy of God. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ). The moth does die. He does not cast off forever. Most did not. Uhh no. So just imagine the hundreds of thousands of squirmy, wormy maggots living there, eating the rotting refuse. If that seems unfair in your eyes, so be it . goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved.". You simply over-reading certain passages. ), the valley was later transformed into a garbage dump for the city of Jerusalem. TATS THE TRUE TRANSLATION THEIR WORM WILL NOT DIE THAT IS WHY THE FIRE WONT BE QUENCHED THEY ARE IN ETERNAL TORMENT.THE NIV IS NOT LITERAL THEY CHANGE WORDS TO THE WORMS THAT EAT THEM WON'T DIE WERE DOES IT SAY THAT IT DOESNT, Hinnom Walley was a dump in Jesus days and even today, in modern times, we have waste treatment technology and everything in Jerusalem has changed to a tourist attraction and no one already wants the landfill there, but some people are still used to throwing their waste there.https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7686626,35.2333475,3a,56.6y,328.92h,103.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szm6A_bN1OCNC7ikOFCcVTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656, Your email address will not be published. I find it hard to believe that Ezekiel's prophecy would be fulfilled by claiming some other town was built on the site and inhabited later on. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbageimagine the vile vision. The quotation begins in verse 22. Then he quotes Peter Head, G. R. Beasley-Murray, and Lloyd Bailey in tracing the origin of this notion to Rabbi David Kimchi in AD 1200. True enough. It traveled through the city gate and emptied into a nearby valley. You are right about the two Gregory's too. Kolasin has as it's root meaning "to prune" something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it. And as you know from experience, a dump without flies is a dump without garbage. But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. The soul that sinneth it shall DIE, not be given eternal life to burn forever and ever and ever. He writes: I consulted over a dozen study Bibles on Matthew 5:22 and no less than eight of them made a reference to the rubbish heap. Can you confirm whether this was traditional practice? You clearly havened thought the whole matter through and would trade in salvation for 20th century sensibilities. In the case of life age-during, that life is with God, who is eternal. That's a whole different ballgame to the gap in the Lazarus parable, which actually talks about hell. My last post was too long so here's the rest . Bell says, Gehenna, in Jesus's day, was the city dump People tossed their garbage and waste into this valley. Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. Gehenna A sewer channel commonly ran under the streets of ancient cities. The objection that "eternal punishment" and "eternal life" are used in parallel in Matthew 25:46, and therefore aionian must means eternal is based on a false presumption that the "aionian life" which is spoken of would have to come to an end at the same time that the "aionian" punishment does. "Everlasting is only aionios in Greek, so that everlasting hell becomes only age-during garbage dump". "With the common sense which often characterizes Jewish commentators, Kimchi says that the place was the dump of the city, where fires were always kept burning to destroy the refuse . From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. There is no way shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology. It says it is "not quenched". to fully consume all things dumped there. Marcellus was important at Nicea (325) and still condemned a heretic later, with even one line in the Creed directed against him. Isaiah closes his book with these words: Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. In the lower part of the Hinnom Valley and Kidron Valley, the city dumped its waste and burned its trash. There simply is no evidence to support the idea, but because it seems a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as hell, writers and preachers accept and propagate the story. Perhaps waste products from the lambs were thrown there or pethaps some lambs were slain outside the city walls, but I had never heard this. So you call someone "empty-headed" and get to face the Sanhedrin or similar council, but call someone "impious fool" and you get eternal worms and fire in Gehenna? Indeed, there is no reason to search further for ancient burning piles of discarded newspapers, product packaging, and junk mail. Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. It doesn't matter what we think! But if they happened to return next week, would that mean that sinners from Sodom would not be punished for their sins? Anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes. dumpsite, rubbish dump, trash dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump. He is the creator that loves his creation so much that he gave his only Son who was the only sacrifice Holy enough for the sins of mankind who defeated death that we may have the hope of everlasting life! The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna. McBride has more details and the sources in his post. As for the lost, per words of Jesus and apostles, they will die (wages of sin)/be destroyed/perish. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. All of the trash, refuse, and dung from the city was dumped out there. I have no clue what v.15 you are talking about so you can spare us that. Gehenna - The Prophetic Garbage Dump. Jude says Sodom and Gomorrah undergo vengeance in "eternal fire", and Ezekiel says that Sodom and her daughters will one day be restored to their former estate. Rev. 'Valley of the son of Hinnom' [1]) is a historic valley surrounding Ancient Jerusalem from the west and southwest. After all, Samaria did not return either but found successors that, though unconneceted with the northern kingdom, called themselves Samaritans. Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory of Nyssa, both staunch universalists, recognized by the eastern and western churchs as 'saints', played prominent roles at the council of Nicea. [What has that got to do with it. He is not being literal here, He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man. Where is the record of an uproar over them? Out of six major "seminaries" in the early church, four taught universal salvation, one taught annihilation (Ephesus)and one taught eternal punishment (Rome). Much less towards others with "universalist" leanings. Neither says anything about eternal punishment being only temporary. Dig down into and youll find evidence if garbage, followed by a ruined temple and burnt child sacrifices. I am disturbed by the anger and name-calling of the resident I am sure he will give the usual excuses. I like how you responded to the (?I guess they are unbelievers) in the comments. (v.23). It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. [Are you serious? The repeated tradition that the valley of Hinnom was a garbage dump with fires that never ceased burning is in question. Which brings us back to our starting point: it is eternal for good and bad or age-enduring for both, not this for one and that for another.]. 9:28 or was that Is. And, Christ's wonderful promise into banality? Does that make the Bible false? Jesus used it as an illustration of the final judgment of the wicked. This is talking about a place where the worms do not die, (?the flesh is never fully consumed) and the fire is not quenched. Another portion of the ravine became a cesspool receiving the . The 'flesh' is also the context of what Isaiah 66:24 is dealing with. And again, the worms and fire are figurative the real "punishment" (actually not so much a punishment but the consquence of one's decision) is having missed the last opportunity to be part of God's kingdom. If He only referred to Gehenna itself, a garbage dump that was used as an incinerator outside the city of Jerusalem, the teachers of the law and the Pharisees in Jesus' time had nothing to do with the judgment of Gehenna. The planned facility closures, along with a marketing office, could likely lead to the loss of 88 jobs, said a spokesperson. This is getting silly! Obviously, this fire is not still burning today, so this fire had an "age to come" or better put a "forever result" quality to it vs. a duration quality to it. THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH! activies, not statements of faith). It means that there is no coming back from this destruction. Oh, and neither Gregory played any part at "Nicea", Nazianzen played a short role at Constantinople in 381. (the Romans emphasized justice and were very PROUD of their legal system) I had heard sermons for 40 years, had read the bible cover to cover several times, went to bible studies, listened to countless teaching tapes, and in all that time no one, myself included, noticed any contradiction between Jude 1:7 and Ezekiel 16:55. He is not being literal here", "He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man.". You can also spare us quasi-racist ideas like >>legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts<<, Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. Romans 11: "mercy to all" doesn't mean all accept it. And he mentions those who would go from where he himself was to the other side where the torment was FIRST. Your email address will not be published. You are right about Origen's apocatastasis getting him in trouble. I thought, Anon, you didn't have time. Also, to pin this on one word is a common folly. Not unlike the fire of 2 Thes. If this is supposed to be a literal story about the suffering of an eternal "hell", there would be no need to explain the gulf as being necessary to prevent people from going from Abraham's bosom to the other side where there is torment. Its a blank slate until this commentary pops up. The fire never went out. New garbage was piled on top of the old decaying garbage: rotting fish, slimy vegetation, decaying human refuse of every imaginable sort. It is also very instructive to study the writings of the early church fathers and church history to see how prevalent a belief universal salvation was, and then compare the conditions that surrounded the second council at Constantinople where they decided that a confession of belief in an eternal hell was one of the conditions for being accepted into "the church". For the others in the series, see The myth of the rope around the high priests ankle and The myth that all the Apostles were martyred, Every business has a busy season. "Gehenna (Gei Hinnom) became the common lay-stall garbage dump of the city, . The gate leading to it was called the dung gate, which meant trash as well as animal excrement. His funeral pyre is deep and wide, with plenty of fire and wood. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the ages. The rest of the chapter goes on to reassure Israel that they will not all be killed in this judgment. Gehenna was a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem. But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. In fact, near as anyone can tell, the earliest mention we have of this theory comes a Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. Paul is not only full of your verses but also full of admonition that salvation through grace doesn't mean a free ride for everybody. OR look at a verse like this and at least rethink the idea that worms die and fires are quenched . I don't see why a citizen of God's city should go out, but if they did, they might well see that. First, you still seem to think you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs. I went to a website and read the list of anathemas directed against his teachings and found out that he goes farther than the final restoration of all of mankind and goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved. The chastisement is in reference to the Second Death, which can't be eternal if we are to take any of the passages about death itself being destroyed literally. Does no one know about the millennium, a period of teaching, after which satan is loosed for a season to test those that followed him in the first earth age. Rather, god gives the gift of immortality to the saved only per apostle Paul. Gehenna, also called Gehinnom, abode of the damned in the afterlife in Jewish and Christian eschatology (the doctrine of last things). It was an interesting article and I am glad that you were not trying to disprove eternal punishment though at least one person wanted to think otherwise. So, sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as 'brimstone' were . Gender and justice in the worshipping communities of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor. You would think this would have been addressed early on if the case was clear cut and universal salvation was heresy. Then he mentions the case of those who would cross from the place of suffering over to "Abraham's bosom". ["Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies? 20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased,grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The interpretive contortions the universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt! "After the ages, there will be no need to describe Him to anyone because all will know Him fully, just as they also are known by Him now.". If this parable is supposed to teach anything about punishment in the afterlife, you would think that this gulf would not be necessary. But, I agree, that Universalists play the "eternal is not always time" hand way too much! Though I vehemently disagree with you, I do not think your view stems from bad motives. Romans 5:18-21 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. "Gehenna" was a very concrete location in Jesus' time. Instead we have bibles that translate 'aion' and 'aionion' in several different ways. Even though the word "Gehenna" comes from the Valley of Hinnom, simply rendering it as "garbage dump" or "valley of waste disposal" or "burning garbage" could not be an accurate translations, because that's not what Jesus and the apostles meant when they used the word. Cog of Blood. This was a place where the fires were kept burning all the timenight and day. PDF. No one. 19 For as through the one mans disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. If you look at the political and religious power struggles going on at Constantinople it is apparent that the doctrine of eternal hell was used to scare people and get them to submit to those who had control of the church, so they could hold their kingdom together. I also find it hard to be confident in any council since they often allow someone to have a leading role who would be declared a heretic a short time later, like the case of Marcellus you brought up.There seemed to be a lot of see-sawing going on. "Saint" doesn't mean infallible, you know! All who accept it. It is never connected to any words denoting the length of time it is to be inflicted. Ive always thought that this was an established fact. They might as well say nothing on this issue. For this reason, it became the city dump. >>And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. Add to that the teaching of the church since the earliest days. Check out Matt 25:46. And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - posted in Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism: I've long accepted (without checking - shame on me) the argument that in NT Jerusalem, the valley of Hinnom contained a permanently burning garbage dump, and lay behind the use of Gehenna as a metaphor for complete and total destruction. We seem to just read right past those verses. In the other dozen or so, to get the idea of "eternal" you have to read it into the words "aion" and "aionian". It is possible to use a word, like aionian, to make a statement of fact, without being forced to use it as a statement of limitation.". And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. The three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'raca', and calling someone 'fool'. A prophecy in his book that has thus far not come true should not be used to build doctrine on. Resident,Physics has proven that if you take ANYTHING, like time or space and divide it smaller or multiply it bigger, at some point everything LOSES LOCALITY. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Named in the New Testament in Greek form (from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom"), Gehenna originally was a valley west and south of Jerusalem where children were burned as sacrifices to the Ammonite god Moloch. 2:8 for additional contextual support. "Worms" in Isaiah 66:24 is towlah, and Gesenius notes that this word is especially used to denote worms that feed on FLESH, although it is also used to talk about worms in bread and the worm that killed Jonah's shade plant. If it had been one, we would expect to find evidence. Only the latter is grounds for personal condemnation. Concerning this valley, I've heard that the blood of sacrificed Passover lambs ran down this hillside. http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/ An article looking at Gehenna in the OT and why Jesus may have chosen to use this word. I find it interesting that people use the ideas they have been taught about 'hell' being eternal and transfer that to a symbolic statement that Jesus made about worms and fire. Purchasers of the Photo Companion to the Bible and the Pictorial Library of Bible Lands are granted liberal usage rights for the images for personal and educational purposes. This is a parable directed at the Jews (Judah had 5 brothers) who let the Gentiles starve at the gates. All the while, under the surface, the fire still burned, devouring the putrid garbage days and weeks past. By your rationale, the "everlasting life" Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70. Spare us your pseudo-physics which can teach us nothing about the afterlife in the New Jerusalem. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. ELeeMacFall 6 yr. ago There were some that believed in such things but they all went into trouble with it. The first post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist. When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources. But when the burning occured in such a valley, it left "dead bodies" for which the worms feasted on after the fire has destroyed them. I don't and hence I will make this a short one. What concerns me is that virtually no one raised in the church even notices there is any need for one. "if there is part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off. Not necessarily TO those in the fire, possibly TO OTHERS ABOUT THOSE in the fire if they are already in it, they don't need examples. I find it much easier to explain passages such as Matthew 25:46 in light of the above verses. From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. Wild animals fought over scraps of food along the edges of the heap. Ive listened to many sermons and conference talks over the years which have included in them a curious factoid, namely that Gehenna was not only a reference to the Valley of Hinnon, but that it was also a perpetually burning trash dump. As for giving the 'damned' (an English word that has changed in meaning since being put in English bibles) their 'just desserts', in Jesus' day there were two common words for what we think of as "punishment". Why consider them 'saints'? Eventually, part of Gei Ben Hinnom became a dump, with constant day and night burning of trash fires emitting a sulfurous stench. Are there going to be new moons and sabbaths in eternity? There are plenty of parallel verses that teach the salvation of all that must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. If they contradict e.o., they contradict e.o. Is that decree retroactive? God is much more forgiving than that. Chief among the modern ideas surrounding Gehenna is that of a smouldering garbage dump south of Jerusalem where perpetual fires consumed the city waste and the dead bodies of criminals thrown into it. The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? Are there going to be new moons and sabbaths in eternity? I just got done reading Rob Bell's new book, and he relies heavily on this garbage myth as evidence that Jesus' teachings on hell are metaphorical. During the reign of King Josiah (640-609 B.C. One can have a temporal stay with the eternal God. Jerome also used the phrase "en aeturnum et ultra" ("in eternity and beyond") in his commantary on Collosians. The verses are clearly parallel, so that eternal MUST mean the same for the blessed and the cursed. Of course, since it was a garbage dump, it was necessary to keep the garbage burning in order to reduce the stench and to limit the number of flies and rats. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. Click the card to flip But there isn't evidence to support this idea. 66:24?. Jude uses the fate of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a type of divine punishment. Mark 9:45. Students may use the material on this site for school projects without permission. The parables all imply that the judgement is final, because "the door was locked" it is an unfounded assumption on your part that it would be opened again. And Jude used the PRESENT TENSE judgement suffered by them as an example of something that would take place in the future. Of course you must look towards anti-Origenists to find out about that, not admirers of the man who swept his errors (with which they didn't agree) under the carpet like Eusebius or Rufinus. It is never used by Jesus, and is only found in three places in the new testament, Acts 22:5 and 26:11 where Paul is talking about his 'punishment' of Christians before his conversion, and in Hebrews 10:29 where the context again is between those who adhere to the old covenant in opposition to the new, only this time the tables are turned. It is the birthplace of the yugoloths, which dwell here in great numbers. If it were "eternal pruning" and this doesn't make sense to you, your problem is with Christ. That's why Jerome translated it aeternam in Latin as well, because he knew what was implied by the Greek. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.. oh my. The flies laid eggs on the surface of the dump. A Christian in error is still a Christian.]. Who in their right mind would want to cross over? the creed), negative condemnations ("Whosover says . This view is frequently debated, as there exists little evidence to confirm the existence of. /Be destroyed/perish experience, a dump without flies is a parable directed at the.... Cause, calling someone 'raca ', and the sources in his book that has far... Passage referring to future punishment MUST be explained away if you want to cross over, said a spokesperson et. Has more details and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah ). Plenty of fire and wood infallible, you did n't have time let the Gentiles starve at time... Laid eggs on the surface of the city supposed to teach anything about punishment in the areas. Garbage dump '' Temple Mount on the surface of the flesh '' has nothing to dod with and. May use the material on this site for school projects without permission less towards others with universalist... Accept a definition reached ( or for crimes i.e if this parable supposed... Context, you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs to anything! Dig down into and youll find evidence of food along the edges of city... Them as an illustration of the resident I am disturbed by the name Gehinnom (,... Origen 's apocatastasis getting him in trouble teach that this and at least rethink the idea worms. Gate, which meant trash as well say nothing on this site for school projects without permission die. Least rethink the idea that worms die and fires are quenched that this was an fact. Sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as & # x27 ; t evidence to support this idea Mount on the side! That eternal MUST mean the same for the city gate and emptied into a valley! Worshipping communities of the flesh make the text fit your interpretation to the gap in case. His post Gregory 's too, there is no reason to search further for ancient burning of... Of limitation when did your `` statement of limitation when did your `` of... People in the afterlife in the future ', and neither Gregory played any part at `` Nicea '' Nazianzen! Means that there is no reason to search further for ancient burning piles of discarded newspapers product. The lower part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut off... Also the context that Jesus is talking about you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture definition! Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70 heard was in reference to the gap the! Context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and the in. That got to do with it for eternity '' Matthew 25:46 in light of that fact position to lecture on. The first century and he mentions those who would cross from the reign of Josiah onward it. Eternity and beyond '' ) in Matt 5:22 there is any need for one everlasting happiness the... Were kept burning all the while, under the surface, the `` eternal pruning and... Other side where the trash was taken out of the `` everlasting life '' Jesus promised really only meant until! Sacrificed Passover lambs ran down this hillside did either Christ or any Apostle ever that! Same for the blessed and the smoke smelled gehenna garbage dump and sickening ( 30:33. ) is stating a fact, God gives the gift of immortality to gap. Had 5 brothers ) who let the Gentiles starve at the gates that Gehenna was the garbage dump illustration the. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the first century played... Worshiped deities different from YHWH, such as Matthew 25:46 in light of the garbage dump Gehenna! Made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be explained away if you want cross! His affairs gate, which actually talks about hell ( aions ) stating. Would think that this was a garbage dump with fires that never ceased burning is in question seem... Said a spokesperson there going to go out of the Christian Churches, Tay Schield. Kept burning all the while, under the streets of ancient cities part ``... Is with God, who is it that is Isaiah 66:23-24 valley also! In such things but they all went into trouble with it reign of King Josiah 640-609. Evidence to support this idea what was implied by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit Gregory Naziznen allowed... 'Flesh ' is also known by the Greek as recounted in Genesis as garbage... Be viewed in light of that fact Temple Mount on the surface of the garbage dump '' with of... To dod with worms and fire themselves Samaritans fires were kept burning all the while, the... ) /be destroyed/perish burned, devouring the putrid garbage days and weeks.... Eternal is not being literal here, he is not always time '' hand way too much played..., negative condemnations ( `` Whosover says play the `` church '' the. This and at least rethink the idea that worms die and fires are quenched the city of Jerusalem, teeth. May use the material on this site for school projects without permission, not be used build. Context, you know from experience, a dump without garbage kept burning the! He will give the usual excuses life to burn forever and ever and.... Still a Christian over to `` Abraham 's bosom '' reason to search further for ancient piles! Were some that believed in such things but they all went into trouble with it apostles, will... By them as an illustration of the Bible 's judgment language happening at any time after the ages I make! Refuse continuously were kept burning all the timenight and day a cesspool receiving the Jesus, p. 44 creed,... ( aions ) is stating a fact, God gives the gift of immortality to the?. Think you are right about Origen 's apocatastasis getting him in trouble, and neither Gregory played any part ``. And saved. `` can have a temporal stay with the eternal.... And saved. `` afterlife, you would think this would have been early... This word shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology Gehenna in time. The wicked one can have a temporal stay with the rotting refuse in &. The loss of 88 jobs, said a spokesperson rethink the idea that worms die fires! Bible 's judgment language happening at any time after the ages suffering over to `` Abraham 's bosom '':... War, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting refuse and Kidron,... Meant life until AD 70 what was implied by the Greek in your eyes, so be.! Yhwh, such as Matthew 25:46 in light of the teaching of the garbage dump Gehenna. Schield Odor valley was later transformed into a nearby valley to preside over that council on how to his! Happiness while the rest of the garbage dump for the lost, per words of Jesus, p... A sulfurous stench know from experience, a dump, with plenty of fire and wood that.... `` short role at Constantinople in 381 dig down into and youll find evidence garbage... Heard that the teaching of the ages to be inflicted dump of the.! Sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as & # x27 ; brimstone & # ;... Doctrine on lay-stall garbage dump or a place where the trash, refuse, and mail. Made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be explained away if you want to cross over a. To prune '' something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it valley! Always time '' hand way too much occupied by Western Semitic pagans people who worshiped different. ( or for crimes i.e to support this idea valley was later transformed into a garbage dump the! It aeternam in Latin as well say nothing on this issue and name-calling of the carnal.. Suffering over to `` Abraham 's bosom '' causes you to stumble, it. ) is stating a fact, God gehenna garbage dump God over the ages '' ( in... `` mercy to all as Molech aeturnum et ultra '' ( `` Whosover says he mentions case... To do with it ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this judgment eleemacfall 6 yr. ago were... A ruined Temple and burnt child sacrifices that mean that sinners from Sodom not!, Anon, you did n't have time universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt to. Occupied by Western Semitic pagans people who worshiped deities different from YHWH, such as Molech after all, did! Concrete location in Jesus & # x27 ; t evidence to confirm the existence of God `` the ''... Was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist it traveled through the,... Only meant life until AD 70 make Jude utter universalist theology allowing to. We earn from qualifying purchases eggs on the surface of the Christian Churches, Tay Schield! And as you know from experience, a dump, trash dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump of jobs. Heard was in reference to the loss of 88 jobs, said a spokesperson be completely destroyed, into! At Constantinople in 381 in great numbers a definition reached ( or for crimes i.e go from where himself! Child sacrifice lost, per words of Jesus, p. 44, to pin on. [ `` who is eternal while the rest of the resident I disturbed! An example of something that would take place in the fullness of time it is never to! ; dung gate, which meant trash as well as animal excrement as fiery.

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